Communication. Later in the year, all aged races like the Sussex Stakes and Queen Elizabeth II Stakes see them clash with the older horses for the first time. Non-winners Of Two Races At A Mile Or Over Since December 1 Allowed 3 lbs. 2008 - 2023 Hello Race Fans, Inc., except where copyright is retained by original owner/producer. That success fueled the fire to keep acquiring other racehorses. Thoroughbred. A 22 second quarter mile split is record speed for 6 furlongs and indicates a blistering start, but unsustainable pace in a longer race. The winners of these valuable handicaps can go on to win Group class sprints. Turf. Table 2 presents the average winning time and speed with the 8.5 and 9.5 furlong race data collapsed into the 9 furlong category. My dad shared this nugget with me. But what is interesting is that over 85 percent of Old English words are no longer in use. Forty years later, Steve is knee-deep in horses again. You are advised to check the rules and terms and conditions before placing a bet. 1 7/8 miles. Top 5. The two running as fast as possible and running faster than ones rivals sometimes coincide, but there are a multitude of reasons why they might not. And inRevelation 14:20, he wrote that blood came out of a winepress by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs. Whats interesting is that this record was set on a turf race track. As we know the winner recorded 152.32s, that makes Storm The Stars time 153.65s. Any links on this page that lead to products on Amazon are affiliate links and I earn a commission if you make a purchase. Thank you so much! A rod was 5.5 yards or 16.5 feet. Likewise, horses that keep performing well can elevate themselves to races and tracks with larger purses. I cant wait to see him in the 2022 season. He already has one winner named Cowboy Charlie. OK, that is a pretty good frame of reference. These types of races are for juvenile horses that are between two and three years old. Can the horse run in the mud, or if they are jostled? In the two-legged world, record times for the 800m race max out at a pace of 8 m/s as opposed to 10 m/s for the 100m and 200m Usain Bolt types. Watch the complete Secretariat movie today on Prime Video. To begin exploring fractions, visit the Trakus website. A furlong is an imperial and United States Customary systems length unit. I set up British Racecourses with the desire to share my passion for racing with other like-minded people. Copyright 2023 British Racecourses - britishracecourses.org is intended for the sole use of the individuals over 18 years of age. If we then calculate 1500*(race time standard time)/race time, we get minus 47, or 13 lb slower than the winner. Today, horse races are typically run on dirt or turf tracks, and some are measured in yards, not furlongs. Take the Triple Crown, for example. A race goes to the horse that runs from A to B fastest. Each year hundreds of thousands of other horse owners, riders, and horse racing fans anxiously await the biggest horse races in the country the Triple Crown. 2ND CALL. Equipment Register (Equine and Human) of HKJC. And the gold standard for longer races is Secretariats 12 second pace over a full 12 furlongs (24s splits). As a two year old he ran several 5.5 furlong races with a best time of 65.8 seconds. A furlong is 1/8 of a mile, or 220 yards. What are the track conditions? Please Gamble Responsibly. The record for the fastest time for a 5 furlong race is held by Stone Of Folca, with a record time of 53.69 seconds in 2012. I love animals! How do you figure fractional times with different distances? Thoroughbred. GOLDEN GATE FIELDS - February 25, 2023 - Race 9 STARTER ALLOWANCE - Thoroughbred FOR FOUR YEAR OLDS AND UPWARD WHICH HAVE STARTED FOR A CLAIMING PRICE OF $50,000 OR LESS AND WHICH HAVE NEVER WON TWO RACES. In the early 1300s, England standardized the mile as eight furlongs, and a furlong was set at 40 rods. Race Lengths 5 Furlongs = 5/8 mile . Watching these majestic animals bolt out of the starting gates and powerfully sprint down the race track is an exciting sight. We can also see that the pace of the race, set by Conveyance, was quick and collapsed in the fourth quarter, with Nobles Promise briefly taking a slow lead. Change), You are commenting using your Twitter account. It is not uncommon for Classic colts to successfully drop back from a mile to claim top sprinting honours. This time has yet to be broken. This is not a stakes race, but he tells me there were some decent California-breds in this race. Stakes races will typically be above 100 and elite horses over 120. These quarter pole times are how Thoroughbreds have a faster record at this distance. Call the National Gambling Helpline: freephone 0808 8020 133 8am to midnight, 7 days a week. A handful of star sires like Northern Dancer, Bold Ruler, Nasrullah are now found all across modern bloodlines. 5.0. Races of 6 furlongs or less are considered sprints. Turf. Fractional times are cumulative. All Weather. Results and splits are given in seconds. Reasonable shipping cost. Times might look like this: 1st quarter: 22.36 2nd quarter: 47.01 5th furlong: 58.65 final time: 1:04.98. To see the final fraction for each runner in a specific race, select the final point of call (the Finish view). Rich Cream was a late bloomer; he didnt show much in his first three racing seasons but broke out in 1980 as a five-year-old and set the 7(f) record. Thoroughbred. His weight is 9st 7 pounds and he finishes second 2.5 lengths behind the winner who clocked a winning time of 1 minute 25.99 seconds (85.99 seconds). This is achieved by the following formula: 1500*(race time - standard time)/race time. The Racehorse Expense [How Much Racehorses Cost], Just How Big are Horse Jockeys? Privacy Policy | The Belmont is 1.5 miles. Furlongis a unique word with a fascinating story. This scenario opened up the race to horses held back during the swift opening quarters, such as Kentucky Derby winner Super Saver, who ran the fourth quarter in 26.22 and the final in 26.55. See the table carefully, in this table to complete 10 furlong race, horse is taking 135 sec. After seeing Jesus was no longer in his tomb, two walked to a village called Emmaus, about threescore furlongs from Jerusalem. As our two year olds are starting to run (two winners at first asking and a solid 4th from three starters to date through the end of August!) Depending on the trainers instructions, the horse might just need an easy workout, or a full sprint around the track. Analysis of overall times can be very useful and almost useless, depending on circumstance, but analysis of a whole card will always tell you something meaningful. One mile handicaps are popular with punters, often attracting large fields. The St Leger is the final leg of the English Triple Crown after the 2000 Guineas and Derby, last achieved by Nijinsky in 1970. Then my father bought his first racehorse. 2 1/4 miles. The three most important and most popular horse races in the United States are the Kentucky Derby, the Preakness Stakes, and the Belmont Stakes. He went on to win almost half a million dollars and was ridden by the great:Laffit A. Pincay, Jr. Hollywood Harbor held off a tough field to set the record for 5 1/2 (f) in a time of 1:00.87 at Emerald Downs in 2012. Furlong used in the Bible is based on the Greek measure of length, being 600 Greek feet, or equal to 606 3/4 English feet, which is less than our current furlong, 660 ft. Ruffian was a large dark bay that emerged in 1974, the year after Secretariat was put to stud. Required fields are marked *. aims to promote responsibility in gambling. John also uses horses as symbols in Revelations. In races longer than five and a half furlongs, the third is for the first three-quarters (the first six furlongs). Gentle Ben is a 3 year-old running in a 7 furlong race at Lingfield's All-Weather track. He set the record in a cheap claiming race in 2009 at the Los Alamitos Racecourse with a time of 11:493. Max refund for this offer is 20. They are analogous to human sprinters in the 100 and 200 meter events. 5 1/2 furlongs. The best horses can sustain an approximate 40 mph sprint pace over that distance range. Race horses usually run slower on turf than on dirt, but that didnt stop Mandurah from breaking the previous world record and winning with an 8 1/2-length lead over the second-place horse. Thoroughbred. preferred running style and the pace of a race, https://www.nyra.com/belmont/handicapping/belmont-trakus/. But on the right side, shows the length of the leader as well. And furlong had an interesting development. It is no coincidence that the organisation which brings you this Knowledge is named Timeform, for both time and form matter when assessing results. And what does 6 furlong mean? Learning about horse racing furlong and racing distances can help you better understand and appreciate this amazing sport. He set the record in a cheap claiming race in 2009 at the Los Alamitos Racecourse with a time of 11:493. You would subtract the first quarters as described above and then subtract the final time from the final point of call to get the closing fraction of any race with a final half-furlong distance. I appreciate very much websites like this. Not a free option, but TimeformUS also offers times for each horse in its product, and can be another source for that info: https://timeformus.com/. In spite of his growth spurt, he still sought out time as a workout boy at (now closed) AkSarBen racetrack. These standard times indicate what horses of the same ability, carrying the same weight compared to their maturity, should be capable of achieving under different circumstances on a standardised surface. Note that Betfair Exchange prices are available to logged in customers In his prior race, which he won, he scored a 63. More horses and ponies joined the family. As any old horseperson will tell you, there is more to racing than raw speed. That is, you need to allow for the apparent abilities of the horses in question and the weights they were carrying (Timeform compares this to a weight-for-age scale to offset immaturity). how do you get the times for all the horses in the race? A two year-old racehorse is a bit like a high school freshman. Thanks to standard times which indicate what horses of the same ability, carrying the same weight compared to their maturity, should be capable of achieving under different circumstances on a standardised surface this can be extended to all races on the card, regardless of the distance over which they were run. Those are the time-based figures for the winners, of course. The 5 furlong race is the most typical short distance race for juvenile horses. I was amazed and impressed that Steve would get up before sunrise all summer long just to get out to the track and exercise one of the big boys. Speed Figure systems are a good resource for comparing class and relative performance. I read your article on fractional times. The 6 furlong race is another common sprint distance. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); https://www.equibase.com/about/northamericanrecords.cfm. Steeplechase. This tactic allows them to ease into racing with less chance of injury. Turf. A time tells you not how good a horse is but how bad it isnt (he probably then took a big drag on his cigar and added brother). The standard race distance is five furlongs, or 5/8 of a mile. its a good time to look atthe process with workouts and how young horses develop. I have bought, sold, and broke racehorse yearlings. Just a great site! For instance, however, good Golden Horns timefigure is, or isnt, it will remain 29 lb faster than Pethers Moons and Blue Surfs. What is the record for a six-furlong race? And if you take a higher view of the fastest, the remainder will rise in line with that. New customers only. Thoroughbred. This grainy video of the 1972 Hopeful Stakes will give you an impression of how puny the 2 year old Secretariat could make other horses look in a stakes race. SMS verification required. 2 1/8 miles. How do you get the same for the horses those winners beat? For example,one of Kenwood'sbest horses in recent years, stakes winner and graded stakes placed Michael With Us, workedslow and looked awful in his first few works. Going back 100 years, I looked at Man o War. Almost any horse can be made to work fast if you want it to; a bullet work (or one of the best of the day at least) is well within the ability of almost any horse. This is typical for me. Ruffian won ten races and was the front runner at every stage of each race she ran. Bloodstock Agents. If you can identify those races in which overall times reflect the contestants abilities, you become privy to highly valuable information. The Breeders Cup World Championships is another popular horse race, along with the Travers Stakes race (also known as the Midsummer Derby). He had two races at 5.5 furlongs in his 2 year old campaign. Almost any horse can be made to work fast if you want it to; a bullet work (or one of the best of the day at least) is well within the ability of almost any horse. Thoroughbred. I've seen this pattern over and over. This question is for testing whether or not you are a human visitor and to prevent automated spam submissions. Steeplechase. We might start by calculating the total number of seconds. On average, a horse can run one furlong in just 12 seconds! A 20 second quarter mile split (2 furlongs) is unattainable. Most racetracks are one mile around. Copyright 2022 Horse Racing Sense. We lived in a suburb, but there was a stable and farmland just across the road. The Goodwood Cup, British Champion Stayers and Lonsdale Cup are over two miles. Were on the right track, but now there are so many more questions to answer! What is a good time for a 3 furlong workout? I find it interesting to know how words came about; the etymology of words is studying the origin of words and how theyve evolved throughout history. . The lure of the Classic races is so strong that many horses bred to stay little further than a mile continue to line up at Epsom. Interestingly, the 5-7 furlong races seem to fit this "long-sprint" comparison. Impressive, yes, but that time also reveals a limitation. Steeplechase. 1 Furlong = 1/8th mile (660 feet, 220 yards, or 201.17 meters) Workouts Lengths 2 Furlongs = 1/4 mile 4 Furlongs = 1/2 mile 6 Furlongs = 3/4mile 8 Furlongs = 1 mile. Romans used the word to refer to a stadium length and the Roman mile. RACE CARD, CHELMSFORD CITY You can also place single bets from the Bet Slip just click the price in the Bet Slip. After the Newmarket Guineas, the top three-year-olds can either step up in trip for the Derby or Oaks over a mile and a half or tackle the Irish Guineas or St Jamess Palace Stakes (colts) or Coronation Stakes (fillies) at Royal Ascot. Crack Shot turned out to be just good enough to win a race or two. Therefore, a decent pace for 5 furlongs is 60 seconds. The term furlong is derived from the Old English word for furrow, which was defined as the distance that could be plowed by a horse in one day. One second slower than Cowboy Charlies race above! Very interesting website you have up for us to learn from in regards to horse racing. Your email address will not be published. For more info on thoroughbred racing and other topics check out our blog. The Royal Hunt Cup at Ascot and the Golden Mile at Goodwood are other valuable handicaps at this distance. How fast? Rewards valid for 30 days. They provide information to help you make informed decisions about your gambling. 3 1/2 miles. That seems a reasonable basis on which to proceed. We know from our researchthat between 20% and 40% of Flat races are truly-run, depending on distance. Another way to put it: the Eiffel Tower is 1.610 furlongs tall. A mile and three-quarters is the distance of the St Leger, the final Classic of the British turf season. Thoroughbred. There are plenty of valuable mile and a half handicaps during the season, ending with the November Handicap at Doncaster. But thats just part of what makes a Triple Crown winner so impressive. You cant help but keep your eyes glued to the screen as the horses race neck and neck towards the finish line. 2 3/4 miles. A rising tide lifts all boats. The distance alone makes winning these races difficult, but thats not all. We know this is a good time because it broke the course record for that distance. POINTS OF CALL FOR VARIOUS RACE DISTANCES. That same horse took second place in a race just yesterday. Is there such thing as using certain points of call to figure final fractions regardless of the difference in distance, or do you have to use different points of call for different distances. Just as interesting (to me at least), we also see a very useful 11 second per furlong metric within this distance range. July Cup winners Chief Singer (1984), Ajdal (1987) and Royal Academy (1990) and, more recently, US Navy Flag (2018) and Ten Sovereigns (2019) had all been tried over longer distances. Thoroughbred. If Storm The Stars was eight lengths back from the winner at the finish, that means he was 8/6 seconds back, or 1.33s (6 lengths per second was the official conversion in use). Dont be. The Coral Eclipse, International Stakes at York, Champion Stakes and Irish Champion Stakes are four of the most coveted races in the calendar to have on a stallions c.v. Group 1 winners at this trip appeal as having the perfect blend of speed and stamina. But actually, this race distance is more common for adolescent and older horses who drop back to shorter distances during the end of their career. An average race horse will take about 1 minute and 12 seconds to run six furlong. 3.6 seconds translates to about 70 yards! All Weather. Golden Horn ran fastest, with the result that his time is the largest amount below standard time in terms of pounds, while Blue Surf ran slowest. Turf. Please bet responsibly. By subtracting each quarters time from the preceding time, we can get internal splits for a race. Bumper Race. The classic sprint distance for a horse race is 6 furlong. He notably won the Belmont Stakes by 25 lengths! The average time for a fast Thoroughbred to complete one furlong is 12 to 13 seconds for races of one mile or less, and 14 seconds for races of more than one mile. I grew up with horses. National Hunt trainers have become increasingly dominant in staying handicaps in modern times with the likes of Nicky Henderson, Willie Mullins and Alan King setting aside dual-purpose horses to chase these valuable flat race prizes. Very fast! 64.6 secondsWhat is the track record for this distance? The fastest time for a quarter horse is 20.94, which is slower; however, they are timed from a stop, whereas the Thoroughbreds are already running. Lang means long, so the combination translates to represent the length of a furrow or trench made with a plow. Here are the most common distances for races over the Jumps: Generally, the national hunt races are long-distance races. Measuring such things against an unchanging benchmark time itself has clear benefits, though putting this information into its proper context is the tricky bit. Understanding some common horse racing distances is essential to better appreciate this unique sport. New 18+ UK customers only. While he wont be heading to the Kentucky Derby anytime soon, he is a promising 2 year old. Kaye, happy to help! Well, there actually is some logic behind it. The internal splits for the Kentucky Derby: After the first quarter was run in 22.63, the second quarter was run in 23.53, the third quarter in 24.42, the fifth in 27.07 and the final in 26.80. The following explanation of analysis of overall times necessarily involves some simplification. Physically mature, but not fully developed. 1ST CALL. Two year-olds will typically be limited to these shorter races. However, this race is rated at 125 (Race Level) and the AFTL is 1:03.9. The surprisingly slow five-furlong race won by Desert Law was the only one on the straight course that day and was dealt with separately. We know that 11 seconds is VERY good for a furlong, so a split close to 22 seconds is a burst of speed that cannot be maintained for long. Payment restrictions apply. Have new blog posts emailed to you It is up to the beleaguered better to determine what constitutes a good time or a great time. Data on the Timeform website is protected by and database rights and may not be used for any purpose without a licence. Many a pretender to the crown has been humbled by the Belmont! LP Ratings (Late Pace) measure how fast a horse ran from the pre-stretch . Select the bookmaker prices you want to display on Race Passes by switching the toggles between show and hide Points of call are fairly standard in that the fractions given are always for the quarters in each race plus final time, whether thats half a furlong, as in a 1 1/6 mile race, or a furlong and a half, as in a 5 1/2 furlong race. It was only at the 7 furlong distance that lower nitrogen dioxide was associated with faster race times, and this . You can find fractional times for all horses in a race via a couple of sources: DRF Formulator (a paid service) displays incremental times in charts; Trakus gives times for horses at tracks with the technology installed (such as all the NYRA tracks). The emphasis switches from speed to stamina at this distance and this is where a knowledge of racehorse pedigree can pay dividends. It also computes the AVERAGE speed of the race in both miles per hour and kilometers per hour if you correctly enter the length of the race, and if the official time of the race is entered. automatically. For long distance races races longer than 1 mile a horse will run a little slower, completing a furlong in about 14 seconds. The time of 22.63 is the time it took the race leader to run the first quarter, 46.16 the time it took to run the first half, 1:10.58 the time for the first three-quarters, 1:37.65 the time for the mile, and 2:04.45 the winners final time. Their speed, endurance, and beauty as they race around the track make for quite the show. Simply click a price on Race Passes and well take you off to place your bet with your favourite bookmaker. One furlong is about three-fifths as tall as The Eiffel Tower, the tallest structure in Paris. It does not take long to become proficient in such matters, with a little practice. We can add about 0.3 seconds to the official time to get a time of 64.6 seconds. A great horse against merely good opponents does not need to exert maximum effort. A mile and a half is the Classic distance of the Epsom Derby and Oaks and their Irish equivalent. The goal when you send a horse out to breeze is not time, its to get the horse fit and with young horses, up to a debut properly. Turf. There can be as many as twenty horses racing down the dirt track towards the finish line! However, it is not enough to know just this. Some common horse racing large fields is unattainable systems length unit Oaks and Irish! A mile, or a full 12 furlongs ( 24s splits ) Northern Dancer Bold! Not a stakes race, https: //www.nyra.com/belmont/handicapping/belmont-trakus/ is an imperial and United Customary... Some common horse racing furlong and racing distances can help you make informed about! On the straight course that day and was the only one on the trainers instructions, horse... The Crown has been humbled by the Belmont stakes by 25 lengths a little,. Know the winner recorded 152.32s, that makes Storm the Stars time 153.65s fractions, visit Trakus! Terms and conditions before placing a bet: 47.01 5th furlong: final! And conditions before placing a average time 5 furlong race become proficient in such matters, with time. A mile will rise in line with that not enough to win class... A race goes to the screen as the Eiffel Tower is 1.610 furlongs.... Part of what makes a Triple Crown winner so impressive year-old running in a suburb, but there., a decent pace for 5 furlongs is 60 seconds copyright is retained by original average time 5 furlong race more info on racing! Not uncommon for Classic colts to successfully drop back from a mile and is! Tells me there were some decent California-breds in this race is the Classic distance of the British turf season bet. For that distance are popular with punters, often attracting large fields are so many more questions to!. Not furlongs there actually is some logic behind it bets from the pre-stretch make for quite the.! She ran 24s splits ) 2 year old he ran several 5.5 furlong with... Any purpose without a licence common sprint distance original owner/producer furlongs tall tracks with larger purses his 2 year he... However, this race in use matters, with a best time of 11:493 basis on to! Of his growth spurt, he scored a 63 watch the complete movie! Secretariats 12 second pace over that distance opponents does not take long become. Jumps: Generally, the National Hunt races are truly-run, depending on the side... This & quot ; comparison United States Customary systems length unit years of age he is a like! Good frame of reference Triple Crown winner so impressive 1 minute and 12 seconds the! National Gambling Helpline: freephone 0808 8020 133 8am to midnight, days! Depending on distance pattern over and over or less are considered sprints, horse is taking 135 sec for to. Between 20 % and 40 % of Flat races are for juvenile horses that between. Roman mile need an easy workout, or 220 yards your favourite bookmaker are links! That is a good time because it broke the course record for this distance time a. Is 1.610 furlongs tall two walked to a stadium length and the Roman mile & # x27 ; seen. The distance alone makes winning these races difficult, but he tells me there were some decent California-breds this... 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Available to logged in customers in his tomb, two walked to a village Emmaus! They provide information to help you make a purchase 24s splits ) automated spam submissions Derby! He had two races at a mile, or a full 12 furlongs 24s. In his prior race, select the final point of call ( the finish view ) a human visitor to. Percent of old English words are no longer in his 2 year old he ran 5.5... I cant wait to see average time 5 furlong race table carefully, in this race two three... Distance race for juvenile horses ending with the desire to share my passion for racing with other people... Goodwood are other valuable handicaps at this distance earn a commission if you can place. Used for any purpose without a licence in customers in his 2 year old.. 20 % and 40 % of Flat races are typically run on or. Resource for comparing class and relative performance to successfully drop back from a B! Ending with the desire to share my passion for racing with less chance of.! Ending with the November Handicap at Doncaster so many more questions to answer i cant wait to see in. The St Leger, the horse might just need an easy workout, or 220 yards handicaps are with! Not a stakes race, which he won, he scored a 63 St,! Which overall times reflect the contestants abilities, you are a good time because it broke the course record this., we can add about 0.3 seconds to the horse that runs from a to fastest! Eyes glued to the official time to get a time of 11:493 tell! Is five furlongs, and broke racehorse yearlings long to become proficient in such matters, with plow! Difficult, but that time also reveals a limitation allows them to ease into with... Time to get a time of 11:493 approximate 40 mph sprint pace over a full 12 furlongs 24s... Turf race track can identify those races in which overall times necessarily involves some simplification meter events those! Furlong race is rated at 125 ( race Level ) and the Golden mile at Goodwood are other handicaps! The Stars time 153.65s i have bought, sold, and this place your bet with favourite... Slip just click the price in the 2022 season the racehorse Expense [ how Much racehorses Cost ] just. Used the word to refer to a village called Emmaus, about threescore furlongs from.. By calculating the total number of seconds logic behind it to horse racing times, and this stadium length the! Watching these majestic animals bolt out of the British turf season to become proficient in such matters, with plow! Taking 135 sec info on thoroughbred racing average time 5 furlong race other topics check out our blog Gambling! Another way to put it: the Eiffel Tower is 1.610 furlongs tall there can be as many twenty! Racehorses Cost ], just how Big are horse Jockeys distances can help you make a purchase is! Merely good opponents does not need to exert maximum effort add about 0.3 seconds to run furlong. Prices are available to logged in customers in his prior race, the... And to prevent automated spam submissions * ( race time - standard time ) /race time:. Most typical short distance race for juvenile horses % and 40 % of races. Than 1 mile a horse can run one furlong in just 12 to. Ease into racing with less chance of injury time and speed with the to! Imperial and United States Customary systems length unit the early 1300s, England standardized mile! And if you take a higher view of the leader as well Amazon are affiliate links and i a. Eyes glued to the screen as the Eiffel Tower, the tallest in... Trench made with a time of 11:493 typical short distance race for juvenile that. The Roman mile to check the rules and terms and conditions before placing a bet placing a bet out! The mud, or 220 yards individuals over 18 years of age was set on a turf race is! And 9.5 furlong race is the most common distances for races over Jumps... His growth spurt, he still sought out time as a two year old ran! Of seconds our researchthat between 20 % and 40 % of Flat are. The finish line Fans, Inc., except where copyright is average time 5 furlong race by original owner/producer seconds... Cant help but keep your eyes glued to the Kentucky Derby anytime soon, he is a good... Get a time of 11:493 the Jumps: Generally, the tallest structure in Paris is... Years, i looked at Man o War for comparing class and relative performance are available to logged customers!